I'm a sucker for. The full-profile barrel creates a line that grows from a polymer handguard by Bravo Company that was flat on the sides, adorned with sections of pebbled finish for grip. Type: Semi-Auto Pistol. That said, most of the 6.75" barrels shoot supers unsuppressed just fine. If the general shape of Springfields PDW looks a little familiar to you, theres a reason for that. It's perfect for sporting or home defense with high reliability and some furniture and trigger upgrades that set it apart from other budget AR-15s. Detent at the safety was heavy and secure without any rough edges. With the brace collapsed, it is just 18.75 inches long. . Is the Rattler a precision instrument? By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. At the range, my first order of business was zeroing the Rattler and shooting five-shot groups with it at 50 yards using loads from Barnes, Hornady, Lehigh Defense and Sig. The second can was the Dead Air Sandman-K, which is slightly heavier at 12.8 ounces yet only 0.7 inches longer. Instead, its plenty accurate for its intended purpose. It began in earnest in the late 1980s. Subscriber Services. Both companies have reputations for occasional issues with their QC, but Sig certainly produces a higher tier product overall. The SIG Rattler is something special. As our tests continued and the trigger broke in, we sometimes experienced only one stopping point before break. The old-fashioned buttpad didnt bother us because it was properly fit, but wed definitely change out the grip. The BCM Gunfighter grip provided a steeper angle than the others, including the Magpul grip found on the M400. The gas block is pinned in place. Gun Review: SIG SAUER MCX Rattler SBR - The Truth About Guns When it comes to affordability, most figured Palmetto State Armory was going to show up sooner or later on this list. However, on the PDW, the Reptilia grip and the provided 20-round magazines look perfect. General guidelines dictate a 1:7 twist rate (there are also the odd 1:5 examples) for subsonic 300 Blackout and a 1:8 or slower for supersonic. This gun has a picatinny rail system for accessories, a six-position collapsible stock, a flash suppressor and a single-stage trigger. Pushing the SIG Sauer 77-grain OTM rounds to an average velocity of 2440 fps, the SIG Sauer ammunition, marked Match Grade Rifle, was still nevertheless well below the 2750 fps printed on the box. Shooting the Black Hills 60-grain V-Max 223 ammunition, we were rewarded with five-shot groups that measured an average of just 0.6 inch across. I usually rent them from my lgs and/or borrow my friend's. You got the CZ shadow 2 orange is it 9mm or 40 cal. Instead of being located at 3 oclock and 9 oclock, additional Keymod holes were located in a line upon the surface area that angled upward to the top rail (10 oclock and 2 oclock). Built with a premium nickel boron coated trigger, forged carrier, enhanced Melonite coated carrier group and a pinned gas block, every rifle is built for ultimate reliability. In the confusion the shot was released off line or as one might say, out of time. But After getting hooked on the Springfield Saint line I lost interest in the Sig , I feel bad. Forged rather than cast aluminum is now the standard, and machining is more exact thanks to computer numerically controlled (CNC) automation. Honey badger .300bo 5. If you havent heard yet, be advised that millions of gun owners may soon be classified as felons if a new Bureau of Alcohol, AR-15 Carbines for Less Than $1300: The Winner is a Saint, SIG Sauer P365XL Spectre P365V001 9mm Luger, Springfield Armory Hellcat Pro HCP9379BOSP 9mm Luger, SHOT 2023: Savage Arms Introduces 1911 Government Model Pistols, 5 Best 9mm Pistols for Concealed Carry in 2023, New Shooters Guide: The Best Gun For Home Defense Isnt a. Outdoors, only the Winchester FMJ produced enough flash to be visible to me when shooting. Your welcome BET7, I've looked at the Christensen Arms and pretty sweet , Also was dead set on getting a Danial defense DD4 after shooting it at the expo , but didn't . MSRP: $2,720; sigsauer.com. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. I realize in the current climate you may have to take what you can get. It loves 150 grain bullets, does well down to 120 grain below that that deer,hog killer doesnt group to my expectations. Keeping all the shots inside the A-zone was important, but for our purposes we wanted to know what characteristics were helping or hindering the shooter. Whereas there is nothing special about the front sight, buttstock, or handguard, upgrades to the magazine release, safety levers, and the bolt catch are more expensive to manufacture or supply than a fancy handguard or buttstock. Brand: Springfield. To find out if any of the above added up to improved performance, we tested for accuracy from the 100-yard line at American Shooting Centers in Houston. As long as you are not expecting rifle-length performance out of a barrel this short, you wont be disappointed. Yes, we would have preferred a flat-top gas block with rail for attaching a folding front sight, and were not exactly sure how to connect a sling to the front end without pulling on the barrel, but were not sure there is much else wrong. That said, and this being Wilson, dont expect some off-the-rack experience with the gun. Some big news for trigger pullers recently from the Civilian Marksmanship Program. I actually sold my Sig m400 patrol 5.56 , And My Sig P320 . Fitting right into this slot is the Saint Victor 300 Blackout Pistol. The 300 Blackout pistol model is no different, but few shooters miss the bells and whistles with a gun that goes bang with every trigger pull and hits the mark. The first and third pics are the rifle I examined, but the second isn't. Minuteman. The 300 rattler was designed to be suppressed. Our action test was designed to tell us more about trigger response and maneuverability than could be culled from a static benchrest session. A Magpul dual split aperture flip-up rear sight was attached to the top rail that ran the length of the receiver. To test the SIG MCX Rattler SBR as it might be used on a deployment, I added a few accessories. New! The only upgrade we spied was a relief in the takedown pin that helps keep the punch, or bullet tip, from sliding off under pressure. Why pay more? I installed it on an AR carbine but ended up taking it off, because while it felt good in my hand, it just didnt look right to my eye. Lets see if our money was well spent. Springfield Saint with FDE, OD Green, and Stealth Grey Rattlecan Paint Job. AR-15 Carbines for Less Than $1300: The Winner is a Saint Following the success of its initial collaboration with Vertx, Premier Body Armor announces its continued partnership. And yet, accuracy from the bench was on par with our other test carbines. 5.56 Rattler? | SIG Talk As for Springfields PDW, it is an AR, so it has familiar controls. So was the grip and handguard. I was able to get 10 hits out of 10 on the top portion of an IPSC silhouette at 100 yards with the Lehigh Defense load and Barnes subsonicswell within the designs parameters. The Springfield Saint AR-15 is a great entry-level AR-15 that is easy to use and customize. I own the Springfield Saint Victor. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The efficiency and versatility of barrels have been upgraded to take advantage of heavier bullets able to land a more effective blow at greater distance. Let's pick up there. The system is also completely modular like the MPX. They screwed up, realize it, and took care of the problem. PDW stands for personal defense weapon. It is not a term that Springfield Armory invented. Nevertheless, we were able to score A-zone hits with all 12 rounds fired before time ran out. I recently got the Tread 716i 308, MCX Rattler in 300 BLK and MPX K (completes my collection as I also have the MPX Copperhead and PCC). Whereas the SIG Sauer presented direct pressure against a solid object, the Saints trigger offered a subtle compression before reaching its breaking point. If the buttstock was somewhat stubborn to move, it was nevertheless rock solid and more comfortable than most. The pistol is supplied with flip-up front and rear sights that sit relatively tall when folded and dont take up much rail space. There was, however, a relief on each side of the handguard about 2.5 inches ahead of the receiver for attaching a quick detach (QD) button-style sling loop. Springfield Armory Saint vs Sig Sauer M400 Tread . As far as stabilization, it features the fairly standard SB Tactical SBA3 brace. Its truly impressive. Maximum bullet weight was considered to be 69 grains. I put a ton of ammunition through this rifle, and everything workedtypical of the MCX series. A late adopter of the AR, Springfield Armory has since risen to the top of mid-priced configurations. As a PDW cartridge, the .223/5.56, unlike the 5.7x28mm and 4.6x30mm, is grossly inefficient. check out the. Its perfect for indoor situations where 25 yards is a long shot and overpenetration is a concern. Another design goal was optimized sound suppressor use, so sub- and supersonic 300 Blackout loads were developed. And After shooting the CZ 75 Tatical sport orange I was in love . Looking past the outdated grip and buttstock, this is a very good rifle that deserved a much better trigger. If the Mk4T had either of the triggers found on the SIG Sauer or Springfield Armory carbines, it might have been the accuracy champ of this test. Over ten trigger pulls we never got the same reading twice. Can't wait to find the price on this and see one in person . Springfield SAINT Edge PDW: New 5.56 Pistol Is Just 18.75 Inches Long Takedown revealed nickel-boron coating of hammer and trigger components, plus a tension screw to fix any gap between the upper and lower ends of the rifle. One of the ways that we suspect the suggested retail price of the Saint was held down was by utilizing an A1 front-sight assembly. The TaurusTX 22 Compact delivers class-leading reliability, capacity, and shootability in a 22 LR platform, and it's cut for a slide-mounted mini red dot. The upper circumference was reduced, guiding the index finger to the trigger. At the Impact Zone Range, our rifles shared a $420 1x20mm SIG Sauer Romeo 4b Compact Scope with a tiny 2-minute-of-angle red dot. Barrel is Chromemoly Vanadium, Melonite coated inside and out, 1:8 twist and a NATO chamber. Eventually, ammo manufacturers answered the call, and now dozens offer 300 Blackout loads for a variety of uses. This muzzle devices primary role is as a muzzle booster for short-barreled guns and PDWs. Runs great. Jacketed bullets can fragment at higher velocities due to high twist rates. Matte Black. Thats pretty much what youd expect from a V-MAX. I'm having a hard time deciding on which one of these to purchase. With the stock folded, the gun is only 16 inches long, making it the shortest 300 Blackout weapon on the market. All remaining rounds produced 1-inch groups. The Tread was $799.00 and the Saint was $849.00. Aristotle who said Republics devolve into democracies and devolve into despotism.. Looks pretty sweet . The abbreviated configurations of Americas favorite firearm are practically perfect in every way. The bottom line? This is the MCX Rattler. SAINT Victor rifles are designed to be masterpieces of performance and precision. What more can you ask for? I fired the Rattler off-hand from 10 and 15 yards with the earlier test loads and a few others, including Winchesters 150-grain Deer Season XP ammunition and Noslers 220-grain BTs. The 2nd pic is from the Sig website.. SIG Sauer has just introduced their latest offering in their tread series of rifles with the introduction of the SIG TREAD Snakebite SE. I would go with the sig. However, if youre shooting supersonic, its right on target. To get started, click the link below to visit mymagnow.com and learn how to access your digital magazine. To change the shooters perspective and in effect reduce target area, we staggered the targets. Depending on where you stand in the stabilization debate, this could prove a dealbreaker. Saw that email pop up today. They are meant to be easier to use and harder-hitting than a handgun but smaller and lighter than a rifle. Additionally, given the use of heavier bullets (200-grains plus and thereabouts), the loads have a smaller powder charge compared to their supersonic counterparts. But I also own several Springfields (M1As in 308 & 6.5cm, Saint Ar15 when it first came out, compact XDe, XDs & XD Mod2 all in 45s, TRPs in 45 & 10mm and the now discontinued Range Officer in 45). Still love Springfield but im sour on that line. Probably, but not at 900 fps. The MCX can be switched from 5.56mm NATO to 300 Blackout and back again, and users can easily install new barrels, handguards and stocks as needed. All content is 2006-2015 Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association. Reptilia sent me one of these compact grips late last year. At first glance, I thought the PDW was ridiculous in both appearance and performance. But it was visible when we used the Romeo4 red-dot scope. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Don't wrestle with pigs, don't argue with idiots. Specs and Features Parts are straight off the "recommended" list, as Saint uses an M16-profile USGI-spec bolt carrier group with a select Carpenter 158 bolt. Completely compatible with average, every day 5.56 ARs, the 300 Blackout upper is a viable route into the caliber (though if you shoot suppressed you might have to up your buffer weight). When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. That's a $1000 dollar rifle and a good deal at that but you're getting gouged pretty bad at 1400. No problems except for the gas blowback. It was very easy to move quickly, and the gun always felt light. This rifle also features a free float M-LOK handguard, ambidextrous controls and a rotating bolt system. Apr 24, 2017 Many contend a 1:8 twist will stabilize heavy subsonic bullets. This eliminates the crack that coincides with the bullet leaving the muzzle caused by the projectile breaking the sound barrier. Springfield Saint Edge PDW AR Pistol Review - Guns and Ammo The AR pistol is a platform of many uses. Honestly, theres not a ton to ballyhoo on the pistol other than it runs, dependably so. MSRP: $949; ruger.com. Life has a melody. Even knowing how short the barrel is, I was surprised at the low velocities nothing produced over 2,000 feet per second (fps), not even Black Hills hot 50-grain Optimized TSX load. June 22nd, 2017, 09:15 PM #2. . Substantial in some circumstances. The free-floated handguard offered Keymod machining on three sides, and the Picatinny top rail extended 11 inches from the receiver. Fun as all get out to rattle off the range. Logical on the surface, given faster twist rates are generally required for heavier bullets, but there is debate on the matter. Somy wife and i was having lunch with the Sig rep. and I asked about the .308 maybe coming out in the tread And he said soon which it did . The Springfield Armory Saint Edge PDW brings to mind a saying from Rush Limbaugh: Illustrating absurdity by being absurd. It offers, at least when compared to a standard rifle/carbine, compromised ballistics and a nearly comical appearance, and I havent done executive protection work in quite some time. The 300 rattler was designed to be suppressed. The buttstock was properly applied and showed only the slightest wiggle. On the M400, there is an extension that adds surface area in an L-shape, making it much easier to operate. But there is hope for me after seeing the new SnakeBite Tread 5.56 . More money for ammo, Fsatureless affords full capacity magazines, @bamaengineer may i ask why you would choose the Sig over the Saint? Garmin Tactix 7 Pro Ballistic Solar-Powered GPS Smartwatch: First Look, How to Choose the Best Scope Reticle for Your Application, Colt King Cobra Target 22LR Rimfire Revolver: New for 2022, Self-Defense Handgun and Ammo Options for People With Dexterity and Strength Issues, 5 Best Red-Dot Optics for SIG Sauer P365X & XL Pistols. He is a gun owner and avid reloader from Colorado. Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Its also rated for rounds up to the .300 Winchester Magnum, so it wont have issues with higher-pressure 300 Blackout loads. AC63A5C8-2987-40EB-B654-CFB78764D21B_1530751250330.jpeg. Each block of calibrated Clear Ballistics gel measured 4 by 4 by 17 inches. To install (or remove for cleaning), you have to pop out both pins on the lower receiver and then slide the upper receiver back and forth. The buttplate had a thin rubber pad smoothly integrated; it was more friendly to clothing or bare skin for that matter. The barrel is 16 inches and features a 1:8 twist. Compared to most everything else on the market, the 10.5-inch barrel (1:7 twist) pistol is an absolute Cadillac. It has a cone-within-a-cup two-piece design reminiscent of the Noveske KX3. I usually have to take break between mags. This removed any slack between the upper and lower ends of the rifle. Dependent on load, firearm and environment, expect anywhere from a 250 fps to 350 fps difference between the lengths. The Rattler runs a very dependable gas-piston system, which eliminates all the fouling typical in these short-barreled configurations. The only difference are the built in QD mounts to any other lower. It will likely go through a threat up close (given no contact with bone), but most of its work is done before exiting. Twist rate on bullets is a debatemine is 1:7 on 9 barrel. We also liked the bead-blast finish on the barrel. Barrel-twist rate was 1:8. Its very handy. SIG MCX Virtus & SIG MCX Rattler Rifles | SIG SAUER I'm ashamed I even own one let alone was considering buying the Saint. A staff member recently paid $2300 for a complete AR-15 carbine without regret. You are using an out of date browser. Ruger's multi-role small frame autoloading rifle - Sear - combines AR-10 power with AR-15 Portability. Jones .300 Whisper wildcat cartridge and developed the SAAMI-standardized 300 Blackout. 8 of the Top ARs for the Money - Wide Open Spaces Before we jump headlong into what the market holds, perhaps we should touch upon why you might want to go a 300 Blackout pistol. To test this, I fed the PDW Black Hills 77-grain TMK load in addition to more traditional offerings. Use of our website(s) implies understanding of our content disclaimer and privacy policy. The M400 tread is sort of a gimmicky rifle from Sig. The Sig Enhanced is heavy and not as responsive as youd expect in a gun of this class, somewhat akin to a mil-spec job. I really liked the Blue TS2 ,so in the end she was getting one for me for a surprise for my birthday . FN sells a 16-inch-barreled carbine version of the P90, the PS90, but it looks ugly and awkward and is far from compact. But thats what your 20-inch barreled baby is for, right? SPRINGFIELD ARMORY - SAINT 16" 5.56 BRAVO CO MLOK HANDGUARD, Sig Sauer M400 Tread .223/5.56 Semi-Automatic 30rd 16". Ive tested full-size rifles that werent any more accurate than that. The hammer and trigger components were treated to a silvery nickel-boron coating. Maybe they will give me some clarity. Now I have Seven Springfield guns with Five Saint Victors . This is why the gun world is awash in top-notch 300 Blackout pistols. The Sig Sauer Rattler. They are dead to me. SA ars get a lot of shit from people but it has been a really good rifle. The handguard is crap, but I replaced mine with one I found here on the EE. Though its important to enter this aspect of the cartridge with eyes wide open. Cookie Notice I said you really loved shooting the orange . The Springfield Armory Saint Victor .308 was announced 2 months after SIG had secured the sale with India in April 2019. Caleb Giddings, Marketing Manager at Taurus, introduces the all-new TaurusTX 22 Compact. The Gunfighter grip offers an extended backstrap to shield the web of the hand and the knurled side panels that provided excellent traction. (Notice they fixed this on the new Edge pistol with a longer barrel.) And in the end after a couple of weeks go by she said to my are you happy with your choice I said of course , why I said . .224 Valkyrie Small Precision Rifle Cartridge: Everything You Need to Know, Buyer Beware: Buying 'Bargain' Guns Can Be Risky. 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If I did buy another SIG rifle it would be the 716 to replace my Victor .308 (most know my issues with this gun). AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. View Product. Maybe i'll sell the .308 if they ship me a new replacement and get an M1A instead, but i'm not exactly dying to give that money right back to them after this fiasco. These guns eventually faded awaypartially because of their ammunition and because it was easier to use a variant of the M4 Carbinebut the need did not. Every MCX also comes with an ambidextrous safety selector and magazine release for righties and lefties. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - First AR15 purchase; SIG M400 TREAD v. Springfield Saint Victor? Whereas releasing the bolt is aided by the larger platform, setting the lock means pressing down on the smaller end. All Rights Reserved. Compare specifications of Sig Sauer SIGMCX Rattler 300 AAC Blackout PMCX-300B-5B-TAP-PSB and Springfield Saint Victor Pistol 300 AAC Blackout STV909300B. Extraordinary accuracy. Both rifles have a similar price, $809 for the Saint with discount code and $799 for the Tread. Sig 716i or Springfield Victor Saint .308. The result was sub-MOA groups (less than 1 inch center to center) from two of the five test ammunitions, including our lightest bullet and our heaviest. Magazine release from the left side was a little easier if pressure was applied more toward the rearward edge than over the center of the button. I used two suppressors with the Rattler. I wrote SilencerCo another letter, under a different email. I would deploy this as a dedicated entry rifle in a heartbeat. Compare. The aluminum hanguard is 6 inches long and has M-LOK attachment slots. The barrel is tipped with a special version of Maxim Defenses interesting Hate Brake. Jeff Bradley shows off the Modern Hunting Rifle (MHR) from Christensen Arms at SHOT Show 2023. Relatively speaking, the 300 Blackout is better suited to shorter barreled guns; in fact, it was designed for exactly this task. Please give me your thoughts and opinions! In use, it seemed to all but disappear. Given the paperwork and money you spent on the can, is it worth testing twist-rates theories yourself? MCX-SPEAR . Two apertures were supplied, but the larger aperture was too open, in our opinion. Springfield currently doesnt have any plans for a version in .300 AAC Blackout, but (hint hint) it would be a very smart move, as the .300 BLK performs much better out of short barrels than the 5.56. The issue is, get it wrong, send a bullet yawling at the muzzle and youre contending with endcap and baffle strikes in your suppressor. For more information, please see our The CMMG Mk4T was the tale of two rifles. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. April 23, 2020 By Sean Utley While there are many good suppressors available, in my experience there are a few notable brands and models which, from a durability/longevity standpoint, I would consider first when looking to purchase a suppressor. Ive also thought the same thing about 20-round magazines in a full-size AR. Caliber: 300 AAC Blackout-MSRP: 1015. Get the latest news and reviews from Gundigest.com. Target-left was placed 5 yards downrange, target-right 7 yards downrange, and the center target 10 yards downrange. Eric Poole and Tom Beckstrand test the Aimpoint Acro P-2 against one of red dot sights' biggest myths: distance. Handguards are now modular platforms for lights, lasers, and sights, and ambidextrous fire controls are becoming more popular as well. Springfield Saint AR-15 [Review] - Pew Pew Tactical For example, Ive seen U.S. Department of State Diplomatic Security Service special agents wielding them in the field when guarding high-value targets. Love this gun . It's basically a bcm with the Saint logo on it. About every 20 to 25 shots, the trigger would pull straight through. Im sure some of the attention it will initially get will be negative from people who feel the same way. That saint victor is 400 above msrp though. If you need a discreet weapon for 100-yard engagements, it's perfect.